Solaris Module?

[marzzz]

Considering this thread, I might as well do a little marketing survey -
What would you expect to pay for a Solaris Module, with the more simplified UI?

Would it still have all the same internal electronics and otherwise be completely compatible with the Solaris Keyboard? I imagine one display with basic knobbage (as discussed), but definitely with enough hooks that you can have additional control with an iPad. A desktop module than could be rack mounted would be ideal.

How about $2495 US?

[qtuner]

I'm concerned that a module will cause 2 production branches of the operating system source code. I would rather development time to be spent on new features for the Solaris keyboard to be implemented, over a sound module. Without the UI of the keyboard system, the need and calls for a software editor will be greater. However, in previous discussions a software editor was determined to be out of scope. Without version 2.0 features like multitimbral functionality, what good is a module? How will module development affect the development of the Solaris OS?

[John Bowen]

I'm concerned that a module will cause 2 production branches of the operating system source code. I would rather development time to be spent on new features for the Solaris keyboard to be implemented, over a sound module. Without the UI of the keyboard system, the need and calls for a software editor will be greater. However, in previous discussions a software editor was determined to be out of scope. Without version 2.0 features like multitimbral functionality, what good is a module? How will module development affect the development of the Solaris OS?

This is EXACTLY the problem! Resources would be diverted to produce a module, with a modified version of the code needed for it, and yes, this would significantly delay any development for a v2.0 Solaris OS.

[qtuner]

As a preorder customer, I urge that development of the module wait until the Solaris keyboard is more mature. I would wager that a mature sound module would sell better.

[John Bowen]

Yes, I agree completely.

[n1nj4]

Alas, the Solaris will only be obtainable by the deep pocketed. Seems a real shame to target such a narrow market. A module priced at around $2295. street would not only get the Solaris in the hands of a lot more musicians/producers, but would also appeal to the considerable number of folks who don't care for synths in the form of a keyboard, let alone a behemoth one.

[John Bowen]

Alas, the Solaris will only be obtainable by the deep pocketed. Seems a real shame to target such a narrow market. A module priced at around $2295. street would not only get the Solaris in the hands of a lot more musicians/producers, but would also appeal to the considerable number of folks who don't care for synths in the form of a keyboard, let alone a behemoth one.

To produce a module at that price would require a reduction of functionality. Less DSPs, reduced inputs/outputs, etc.

[n1nj4]

Alas, the Solaris will only be obtainable by the deep pocketed. Seems a real shame to target such a narrow market. A module priced at around $2295. street would not only get the Solaris in the hands of a lot more musicians/producers, but would also appeal to the considerable number of folks who don't care for synths in the form of a keyboard, let alone a behemoth one.

To produce a module at that price would require a reduction of functionality. Less DSPs, reduced inputs/outputs, etc.

I can't imagine needing more than a pair of inputs and outputs on a monotimbral synth. In terms of reduced DSP, increase the price as necessary, or make more DSP an optional upgrade....I must admit, I find it surprising a Solaris module would cost more than an Origin module, in terms of spec, to produce.

[BF]

As a preorder customer, I urge that development of the module wait until the Solaris keyboard is more mature. I would wager that a mature sound module would sell better.

Granted I'm biased, but I second this sentiment. I have a feeling that those who desire the Solaris in module format will end up having an unrealistic concept of price point.

[n1nj4]

I guess the bottom line at this point is pacifying the pre-order customers. They're a needy bunch, them.

[qtuner]

I guess the bottom line at this point is pacifying the pre-order customers. They're a needy bunch, them.

There are not enough resources to work on two products. If you happen upon a second John Bowen, please let us know.

[John Bowen]

There are not enough resources to work on two products. If you happen upon a second John Bowen, please let us know.

Nice of you to say that, but it's not just me....there is a very small team making this happen, and we just don't have the manpower of an Arturia (for example). Another issue is financial resources - I don't think people really understand how much money it costs to make a Solaris or an Origin product (as n1nj4 mentioned). Certainly, Arturia, having been around for a while (10 years and selling lots of products), has more financial resources as well.
One example where this comes into effect is quantity parts ordering. Ask any botique Modular synth maker - if one could order larger quantities of parts at once, you can save up to 30% more than ordering in the smaller quantities that I've had to do. Obviously, this affects your end price.

[HUROLURA]

I can't imagine needing more than a pair of inputs and outputs on a monotimbral synth. In terms of reduced DSP, increase the price as necessary, or make more DSP an optional upgrade....I must admit, I find it surprising a Solaris module would cost more than an Origin module, in terms of spec, to produce.

Just in term of DSP power (rough MFLOPS figures without taking into account the power of the BlackFin which probably also take care of what the "old" DSP do in the XITE range of products and if you assume MFLOPS comparison between Sharc and TigerSharc is so easy).
So, from what I understood from the lines in this forum, the SOLARIS would provide :
=> 50% of the DSP power of an Xite-1 (same range of price in the $ 4000 range, but needs a host computer + probably some external MIDI control elements)
=> 133% of the DSP power of an Xite-1D (probably 60% of the Solaris Price)
=> 200% of the DSP power of the Arturia ORIGIN (the desktop is around $ 2500 while the keyboard version should be $ 3500)

So I suspect a desktop model of the SOLARIS would be arround $ 3000/3500 if the spec is just removing the keyboard, wheel and maybe the Ribbon but keep the rest.
Just something similar to what Oberheim Matrix 12 (keyboard) to Xpander comparison was (a 38' unit instead of a rackable 19' unit ).
This would save most of specific coding part and keep both product have the same firmware: just concentrate on casing/repacking the same hardware boards.

Solaris desktop dream ...

solaris Desktop dream.jpg (10.07 KiB) Viewed 22946 times

Another maybe cheaper option could be an external rack just providing a blind SOLARIS that can be remote controlled by a SOLARIS but this would assume that the user interface part (keyboard, knobs and display ...) is phisically separated in the electronic design of the SOLARIS from the DSP and IO boards and also that the boards are small enough to be integrated in a 19' unit.
The large number of knobs and display provided on the SOLARIS also contribute to the price.
I guess such a device would require more work.

[John Bowen]

That's a pretty good estimate, Hurolura. Well done!

The idea of a "blind Solaris" sounds frighteningly like the idea of the Creamware Klangboxes!! I don't think these sold very well...if at all. (It would be the cheapest way to get the Solaris sound, though.)

[HUROLURA]

The "Blind Soaris" would probably be the cheapest way to provide an expansion module to the SOLARIS to add some more Polyphony or play some extra tracks, with no real link/dialog between both unit except for the MIDI NRPN message.
Only the preset management part should be kept then and there a small display + the num pad and a few keys should be enough.
Could also be used as a preset-box or used with some external masterkeyboard/midi controller ...

The Creamware Klangboxes were probably too blind and suffered from the same limitation as the ASB (one part only, one plug only, no preset name display).
They still (?) kind of survived in the Plugiator/ASX which probably sold a bit more but still didn't provide the flexibility of the NOAH Ex (which was not that much of a success either, from what I remember ).

Providing such a "Blindbox" Solaris could be a wayto offer something more integrated (one sound-design flow with choice of modules/routing flexibility) in the manner of the Clavia G2 Engine. A Host computer based editer could be also designed afterward. I have seen somewhere there are people waiting for a Clavia Modular G3 ....