SOLARIS - Future Synth. Oscillator / Envelope Models / OSC

[galaxiesmerge]

Hi,

I'm a newbie (my order for a Solaris is in) to the posts but I have a few thoughts that I would like to share. Given the Solaris is software that can be updated, I was wondering how hard it would be to add different kinds of models from the synthesizers of yesteryear? One example of a synthesizer oscillator model is the model used in the old Digital Keyboards Synergy Synthesizer and its ability to track two hands independently - for example as my left hand plays a scale going down and my right hand plays a scale going up, then the left hand portamento will follow downwards and the right hand portamento will follow upwards. I gives some pretty cool effects. The Synergy had a waveform table and one could do wave shaping and some combinations of partials (it had 32 partials run from a lookup table with a z80 cpu) to produce some very melodic sounds with its 16-stage looping envelopes per partial.

My thoughts are that OSC would be a very welcome addition to the SOLARIS synthesizer as it is fast becoming a standard for performance and modulation control supporting a wide variety of controllers over USB, Firewire and MIDI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

Any thoughts are welcome on this!

Thanks!

[ScofieldKid]

General response: what we have now is a near approximation of at least
1. Oberheim Matrix 2. Moog MiniMoog 3. SCI Prophet 5 4. SCI Prophet VS 5. PPG Wave 6. Yamaha DX7 FM 7. Rotors 8. AM 9. Samples
Let's not get too greedy.

I am fairly interested in some other types of Synthesis as well. But I think the modulation possibilities we'll have with this setup, (all the filters, all the LFO's, the side-chain modulation, the 8-stage-mod), and the wicked mod matrix, should really make this a flexible instrument. But clearly, it is set up to be played. Side Note: I see you have an Andromeda. That synth was wicked to me also, in concept, but I'm not sure how well they implemented the interface. So something not to miss on the Solaris is the interface, this thing is meant to be played/tweaked/twisted... It should be great for people who like to do old sounds, or shoot for new ones. Not sure it needs to be more than it is at this point. It's pretty hairy already. I mean, I'll be sitting in front of the Solaris... I'll have direct control of it. So interfacing it with other stuff won't be that interesting to me personally. I expect this will be my main synth.

[NOTE: Forgot to add this before: since we can have any oscillator mod any other oscillator... FM, and since we can have any selection as the choice of the CARRIER and the MODULATOR in the two AM sources, and since the AM sources have a few different operations, and since we have some wicked Oscillators to begin with, like MorphSaw, and Jaws..., I'm expecting that we will be able to do a lot of interesting stuff.... ]

[John Bowen]

[edit]...One example of a synthesizer oscillator model is the model used in the old Digital Keyboards Synergy Synthesizer and its ability to track two hands independently - for example as my left hand plays a scale going down and my right hand plays a scale going up, then the left hand portamento will follow downwards and the right hand portamento will follow upwards. It gives some pretty cool effects. The Synergy had a waveform table and one could do wave shaping and some combinations of partials (it had 32 partials run from a lookup table with a z80 cpu) to produce some very melodic sounds with its 16-stage looping envelopes per partial. [edit]..

What you address here are 2 different issues. The oscillator type would be only the waveform table/wave shaping/partial combinations part; the duophonic control is a special case for a keyboard mode, not an oscillator type.
-john b.

[galaxiesmerge]

General response: what we have now is a near approximation of at least
1. Oberheim Matrix 2. Moog MiniMoog 3. SCI Prophet 5 4. SCI Prophet VS 5. PPG Wave 6. Yamaha DX7 FM 7. Rotors 8. AM 9. Samples
Let's not get too greedy.

I am fairly interested in some other types of Synthesis as well. But I think the modulation possibilities we'll have with this setup, (all the filters, all the LFO's, the side-chain modulation, the 8-stage-mod), and the wicked mod matrix, should really make this a flexible instrument. But clearly, it is set up to be played. Side Note: I see you have an Andromeda. That synth was wicked to me also, in concept, but I'm not sure how well they implemented the interface. So something not to miss on the Solaris is the interface, this thing is meant to be played/tweaked/twisted... It should be great for people who like to do old sounds, or shoot for new ones. Not sure it needs to be more than it is at this point. It's pretty hairy already. I mean, I'll be sitting in front of the Solaris... I'll have direct control of it. So interfacing it with other stuff won't be that interesting to me personally. I expect this will be my main synth.

[NOTE: Forgot to add this before: since we can have any oscillator mod any other oscillator... FM, and since we can have any selection as the choice of the CARRIER and the MODULATOR in the two AM sources, and since the AM sources have a few different operations, and since we have some wicked Oscillators to begin with, like MorphSaw, and Jaws..., I'm expecting that we will be able to do a lot of interesting stuff.... ]

Yes - I do agree for the most part which is why I put myself on the list for a SOLARIS. I mean, I can do just about all of it in MAX/MSP but the issue for me is usability and interface --- I don't want to spend *too* much programming, but I do really want to spend *some* of the time programming. Hence, the SOLARIS beats MAX/MSP hands down for me for those issues.

So the real thing for me about the models (and they sound great from the demos of SOLARIS that I have seen so far) is that having the models really cuts down on programming time when looking for a certain type of sound quickly and effectively. The FM models could mimic what Synergy can do, but, not quite all of it, which is why I envisioned the model - and, incidentally, phase modulation synthesis like in the DK Synergy is similar but slightly different to the CASIO CZ phase-distortion series or other types like in the PEARL POLYSENSOR (DWS-II synthesis engine - Digital Wave Shaper), should be possibilities for the future since they all have a similar architecture. I have played the PEARL and it produced some extremely beautiful musical sounds back in the day. Of course, since I have a KYMA PACARANA I can build these models - but, what I like about SOLARIS is that it is an all in one box with a quick catalog - not having to always spend a lot of time searching through the AES journals for algorithms on oscillators.

Also, the SOLARIS could be claim to be the only off the shelf keyboard to give you authentic models of instruments past - maybe another selling point - to show the brochures and pictures of these past instruments and relate them to the SOLARIS and to also show the more modern aspects of the SOLARIS.

Hope these comments help.

Cheers!

[galaxiesmerge]

[edit]...One example of a synthesizer oscillator model is the model used in the old Digital Keyboards Synergy Synthesizer and its ability to track two hands independently - for example as my left hand plays a scale going down and my right hand plays a scale going up, then the left hand portamento will follow downwards and the right hand portamento will follow upwards. It gives some pretty cool effects. The Synergy had a waveform table and one could do wave shaping and some combinations of partials (it had 32 partials run from a lookup table with a z80 cpu) to produce some very melodic sounds with its 16-stage looping envelopes per partial. [edit]..

What you address here are 2 different issues. The oscillator type would be only the waveform table/wave shaping/partial combinations part; the duophonic control is a special case for a keyboard mode, not an oscillator type.
-john b.

Yes - Agreed on this --- I did mix the issues. On another note, since the Haken Continuum Fingerboard does work on MIDI, when I get the SOLARIS I will be trying it out with the Fingerboard. I think overall, and from what I get online, you've done an excellent job on the SOLARIS.

I was attracted to the SOLARIS for the following reasons:
1) It is a whole and complete instrument (i.e. I can pack it with my amp in the car and take it to a gig).
2) It offers a great physical tweak-inducing user interface which fits my human hands and eyes --- I cannot stand the one slider does it all or spending hours on a Max/MSP Patch - for those sorts of things I go to my KYMA Pacarana and Capybara systems.
3) It offers the future expandability as a promise for the future - of course, I realize that these things cannot be done immediately (like new models), but, I would be happy to pay for a "model-pack" or a new "algorithms-pack" --- I do not expect these things to be free.
4) One element that I think will need to be worked on is a good SOLARIS patch-navigation editor or sound-library system (not for tweaking patches but for *naming* and *describing patches with *attributes*). Again, this is a future element, but, I think it would be a very useful piece (and maybe it does exist already with some universal librarian that you might recommend).
5) Keyboard models --- performance models and tuning models are useful things for the future as per user demand.
6) Interoperability - Open Sound Control (OSC) is something that is less, in my view of a "future" thing but more of a current issue, and, for my part, I would be happy to pay for interoperability as an "upgrade" to the SOLARIS. Maybe you might want to take a poll on the users and see who would like *faster* MIDI-like control or use other controllers (or faster response times, lower latencies than MIDI) via USB control. I'm all for it!

I hope my comments are found to be useful.

Thanks!

[John Bowen]

[edit]...Also, the SOLARIS could be claim to be the only off the shelf keyboard to give you authentic models of instruments past - maybe another selling point - to show the brochures and pictures of these past instruments and relate them to the SOLARIS and to also show the more modern aspects of the SOLARIS.

I appreciate your thoughtful and well-written comments. As for this comment - I think it would be 'dangerous' to build up too much any expectation that one is going to get exactly the same sound as these past instruments, for the simple reason that sound is a very subjective judgement, and there are many factors that affect those older synths - circuit board layout, components selected, their age, etc., and all these things together create a special experience and relationship users have expressed about their equipment, factors which really cannot be coded into any models. I use the model names as references, a starting point or a point of familiarity for the user, but I would be the first to say that you should not expect to be able to get an exact replica of your old Prophet 5, CS-80, or whatever.
-John B.

[ScofieldKid]

Ditto. Mea culpa. Just trying to give people a feeling for the breadth of tools that are inside the beast.

[John Bowen]

NP. And actually - you mentioned the DX7 in your list, and that type of oscillator we do NOT have as of yet. Linear FM is available, but that's not how the DX7 works - we need a special osc type that handles phase modulation. (And yes, it's on the To Do list, but I'm pretty sure it will not get done for the first release, as I'm wanting them to wrap up and go into debug phase now).
-John B.

[galaxiesmerge]

NP. And actually - you mentioned the DX7 in your list, and that type of oscillator we do NOT have as of yet. Linear FM is available, but that's not how the DX7 works - we need a special osc type that handles phase modulation. (And yes, it's on the To Do list, but I'm pretty sure it will not get done for the first release, as I'm wanting them to wrap up and go into debug phase now).
-John B.

I like the Digital Keyboards Synergy II+ model the best - it was all run on the old z-80 with some table lookup eproms. Next is the Casio and the Yamaha DX7.

If you passed a hat, or better still, a preorder for a pack of oscillator modes, then I woud pay for this!

Cheer